Photographix
For Photographers of All Skill levels since 2005
Commenting and Critiquing Images
This week I have decided to discuss commenting on and critiquing images.
I think that it is awesome that we have so much knowledge and varying skill levels of the club members. We can learn so much from each other and they way each of us see. I would like to find a way to embrace this while still having an environment where everyone feels safe sharing their images. Many times members will post images and do not want critiquing. They may be posting them to just add to their page to share with other family and friends etc.
There are areas of the site such as the 'Collective Shoot' or when you enter a competition that you expect to have your work critiqued and judged and you know this going in. What I am referring to is unsolicited critiquing of regular uploaded images to ones portfolio.
Photography is an art and is too subjective for everyone to 'get it'. It can be a personal taste or an intentional breaking of the 'rules'. I don't think we all can see out of our current way of thinking and can be too critical of others work.
All this being said, I think critiquing is very, very valuable and I encourage it if it is expected or asked for. I think it is an excellent way to grow and helps you to see what others see. When you are emotionally attached to an image, or subject, you get blinders on and don't see the obvious. Take critiquing for what it's worth. Don't live or die by it but be open to it and try and see it from the other's view. Even if everyone else is wrong, you at least know how everyone else sees it which probably makes everyone else right ;)
I suggest that if you want critiquing on your image, either post to the critiquing section in the forums (just added today) or specifically request it in the description of your image.
I'm not saying don't post comments on an image. I think this is great and most people enjoy this. I usually employ what my mother always told me that 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all' If I haven't commented on some of your images, please don't assume I didn't like it, I probably just didn't see it or I didn't comment at the time and now it is probably too late. I was looking this morning and we have over 1,500 images. Wow! that is awesome! Don't think I will ever see all of them.
When people think of critique, they usually think of negativity and fault finding. It doesn’t have to be. Even the worst of images have some redeeming quality.
Here are some guidelines for critiquing-
Use the Oreo principle
Sandwich the things you think could be improved upon between two positive attributes of the image.
Something like 'I really like the composition of this shot, great use of the rule of thirds. I think the subject is a little too soft and there is a soda can in the background. Great color and post processing.'
Try and think with an open mind
It's too easy to get caught up in our current way of thinking about photography and be less accepting of all of the different areas. We might be caught up in artistic type endeavors or we might lean more towards very formal portraiture and not open to more contemporary styles. This is just they way people are. Back up and see if you can see what the photographer saw in their original vision.
If known, take the photographer's skill level into account
We are all at different levels and, unless you decide to stop progressing, this will always be. What may be a good and appropriate critique for a professional would neither be good or appropriate for a beginner. You may not always know what the photographer's skill level is but, you can sometimes get a feel by looking through their portfolio. Though refrain from pointing out there assumed skill level in the critique. For instance, I wouldn't say 'for a beginner, I think you did great on the lighting'
Like I mentioned above, commenting on images is great and what most of the members here would like. Critiquing should be left for solicited requests. I highly encourage those that desire to offer some images for critique. If you do not feel like it in a public forum, shoot one of the members an email and ask for their critique in an email. I don't know of any member in this group that would not be willing to discuss and share.
-Doug
I think that it is awesome that we have so much knowledge and varying skill levels of the club members. We can learn so much from each other and they way each of us see. I would like to find a way to embrace this while still having an environment where everyone feels safe sharing their images. Many times members will post images and do not want critiquing. They may be posting them to just add to their page to share with other family and friends etc.
There are areas of the site such as the 'Collective Shoot' or when you enter a competition that you expect to have your work critiqued and judged and you know this going in. What I am referring to is unsolicited critiquing of regular uploaded images to ones portfolio.
Photography is an art and is too subjective for everyone to 'get it'. It can be a personal taste or an intentional breaking of the 'rules'. I don't think we all can see out of our current way of thinking and can be too critical of others work.
All this being said, I think critiquing is very, very valuable and I encourage it if it is expected or asked for. I think it is an excellent way to grow and helps you to see what others see. When you are emotionally attached to an image, or subject, you get blinders on and don't see the obvious. Take critiquing for what it's worth. Don't live or die by it but be open to it and try and see it from the other's view. Even if everyone else is wrong, you at least know how everyone else sees it which probably makes everyone else right ;)
I suggest that if you want critiquing on your image, either post to the critiquing section in the forums (just added today) or specifically request it in the description of your image.
I'm not saying don't post comments on an image. I think this is great and most people enjoy this. I usually employ what my mother always told me that 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all' If I haven't commented on some of your images, please don't assume I didn't like it, I probably just didn't see it or I didn't comment at the time and now it is probably too late. I was looking this morning and we have over 1,500 images. Wow! that is awesome! Don't think I will ever see all of them.
When people think of critique, they usually think of negativity and fault finding. It doesn’t have to be. Even the worst of images have some redeeming quality.
Here are some guidelines for critiquing-
Use the Oreo principle
Sandwich the things you think could be improved upon between two positive attributes of the image.
Something like 'I really like the composition of this shot, great use of the rule of thirds. I think the subject is a little too soft and there is a soda can in the background. Great color and post processing.'
Try and think with an open mind
It's too easy to get caught up in our current way of thinking about photography and be less accepting of all of the different areas. We might be caught up in artistic type endeavors or we might lean more towards very formal portraiture and not open to more contemporary styles. This is just they way people are. Back up and see if you can see what the photographer saw in their original vision.
If known, take the photographer's skill level into account
We are all at different levels and, unless you decide to stop progressing, this will always be. What may be a good and appropriate critique for a professional would neither be good or appropriate for a beginner. You may not always know what the photographer's skill level is but, you can sometimes get a feel by looking through their portfolio. Though refrain from pointing out there assumed skill level in the critique. For instance, I wouldn't say 'for a beginner, I think you did great on the lighting'
Like I mentioned above, commenting on images is great and what most of the members here would like. Critiquing should be left for solicited requests. I highly encourage those that desire to offer some images for critique. If you do not feel like it in a public forum, shoot one of the members an email and ask for their critique in an email. I don't know of any member in this group that would not be willing to discuss and share.
-Doug
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Comment by Joe Dickerson on March 9, 2009 at 4:42pm -
As usual very well said in a very open and unbiased format. I agree, today's technology and post processing software has created an environment for everyone to express thier own visions, everything from documentary to an endless expression of Art. "I like it all"..
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Comment by Tim Walter on March 9, 2009 at 6:48pm -
Critiquing can be a funny thing, my case in point.
This past year I joined the Davis county fair photography contest and took 2 1st place and a 2nd place. I got a chance to go down and see my work and what a rush it was to see my work hanging there with such ribbons. Well I asked one of the judges what he though of the church shot I have posted on my page and got some serious critique. I was scratching my head, " I just won and your giving me a class on what I could have done better?" But I listened, then a few more judges came over and there was a little round table discussion right there. Some though it was good to great as it and others had suggestions for me to take home. Went on to my 2nd place entry and got some more C&C. At this point I was listen all ears if you will, trying to be like a sponge and soak it all in. I learned more in those few mins than I had in the prior few months of "good shot" "love it" "cool" on the message boards. I came home and driven with new knowledge devoured my photos with a more critical eye, I was quite dismayed with what I saw... Fast forward a few months to my encounter with 1X (only post if you dare, these guys have no qualms about hurting your feelings). Stuff I worked on and fine tuned rejected, followed by more rejection. No impcat they said, but the same photo on Nikon Cafe or one of the local wildlife forums would get big "Wow!". Puzzled and dejected I found that while outside critique is good and necessary to grow, not every one you recieve is worth the time the poster took to comment. On that matter there are basic funamentals that MOST solid photos are based on and then there is the abstract and artistic stuff. I guess what is art to one is not well reguarded by others
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Comment by Tim Walter on March 9, 2009 at 8:35pm
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One thing Ive though about since my last post, is that if you are getting paid to do work for people you should consider your work open game. It changes the whole playing field and dynamics of things. Not that I would openly seek out others work to beat down, but you OWE it to your clients to be as flawless as possible.Also others will be seeing your work and commenting on it to the your customer after the fact. In my case, as I venture into this portraiture market this spring, I make this move cautiously knowning this is a lucrative and cut throat market in this area. One only has to venture to Layton park on any give day from April to November to see this, so I know for me I want my work slash and dashed, along with the good of course BEFORE I go on site and do a client a disservice(and my reputation and good name).
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Comment by Richard G Newton on March 10, 2009 at 3:58pm
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I appreciate your insight and commentary Tim on this rather sensitive subject. It will be great to have such a forum.
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Comment by Tim Walter on March 10, 2009 at 9:53pm
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Thanks Richard. Hope to give others a view into my way of thinking, beside the forthright blunt military side that can come out at times...
Ive posted in the critique forum and looking for feedback. On that matter, I welcome C&C on all shots I post. If you leave a comment for the good or bad I would like to hear your reasoning on it. It might make me look at it from a different perspective. Thanks
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Comment by Brad Sharp on March 11, 2009 at 5:15pm -
I agree with all the comments so far. I teach a beginning and intermediate photography class at UVU Continuing Education, and this is part of my lesson. It gives some advice on how to give critiques and what to say. It can also help when critiquing your own work.
Critiques are a very important part of learning how to take better photographs. Not only does the photographer receive feedback from people other than close friends, spouses, and parents (who are totally objective and not in the least bit biased), but by participating in the critique process, as the individual critiques the work of others, he/she becomes more aware of his own work.
Don't get defensive if you're the photographer receiving a critique. Having a diversified group of people talk to you about your photography is a rare opportunity, so take advantage of it ~ you may even learn something. Take their opinions with a grain of salt, and remember, not everyone agrees on every photograph. After they have finished their critique, if you feel the need, you may defend yourself, although if you feel you must you may want to consider why.
Photographer's Take:
Describe your image – tell what you wanted to capture in the photo, why you took this particular photo, and what you were trying to express or achieve.
What do you like about the result?
What do you feel may be missing or flawed? What did you have a problem with (if any).
What other information will help us understand your work, or what you were trying to accomplish?
Technical:
Assess ~
Look at the photograph and make sure you see all the detail.
Exposure ~
Is any part of the photograph over-exposed or under-exposed? If so, how could this have been prevented?
Focus ~
Are the eyes, or main focal point of the image, in focus? If it is a landscape, or close-up of food, is the entire photograph in focus?
Lighting ~
Is the light too harsh or too soft? Does it help portray a feeling? Does the lighting technique distract from the subject in the photo? Is the use of light dramatic? Does the lighting add to the photo, or is it just an afterthought? Did the photographer use harsh mid-day lighting, or colorful morning or evening light? Is the flash lighting too bright and over-exposed, or too dark, or like baby bear - just right?
White Balance ~
Is there a color cast or tint (bluish, greenish, reddish) in the photograph? Does it look natural?
Dust:
Are there any dust or spots on the photograph?
Blur~
Is there any unwanted blur (wrong focus, motion blur, movement blur etc.)?
Depth of Field ~
Is the DOF too shallow or too deep? Does it ‘work’ in this photo?
Composition:
Rules & Guidelines ~
Can you seen any of the rules of good composition in the image (Rule of Thirds, Leading Lines, Diagonal Lines, S-Curves, Room to Move & Look, etc.) Are there any visually interesting elements in the photograph?
Cropping & Framing~
Does the cropping help the overall look and feel of the photo? Is there too much wasted space or not enough blank space? Are important elements in the photograph cut off?
Landscapes~
Is there a good balance between the foreground and the background? Are they both in focus?
Aspect Ratio ~
Would the photograph have been better as a vertical, or as a horizontal?
Distracting Elements ~
Are there any distracting elements in the photograph? Are there any parts of the image that just barely touch the borders? Are there any poles or vertical lines coming out of people’s heads?
Emotion:
Mood ~
What type of mood does the image portray to you? “When I look at this photograph it makes me think of…”
Feeling ~
Does the photograph elicit a feeling from you? Is it an emotional image? “ When I look at this image it makes me feel…”
Evaluation:
Your Opinion: Good Points~
Do you like the photograph? Can you explain why?
Be specific: “I like the subject”, doesn't help us much. “I like the way the subject …”, is much better. “I like the way you positioned the subject because it brings out…”, is even better. Or, “I like the color of the blue sky against the pinkish color of the mountains because it adds some warmth to the photography”.
Evaluation: continued
Your Opinion: How to Improve ~
This part of the critique is saved for last. Here is where you can tell the photographer one or two specific points that could be improve the photograph – in post production (‘give it more contrast’, crop or clone out the…’ and one or two points that you would have done differently if you were taking the photograph. Try to refrain from saying ‘You should have…’ or ‘You need to…’.
Examples:
http://www.photosig.com/go/photos
http://www.photosigcom/go/photos/view?id=2204701&forward=usercritiques
http://www.photocritique.net
The website photosig.com has very good critiques.
The website photocritique.ne has more comments than critiques.
Look past the first couple of pages to read the critiques.
Photo Critique - In Class:
Purpose:
1. To assess abilities of class
2. To make you think more about what you want to accomplish, why you took the picture the way you did, and what settings did you use.
3. To learn how to make you photographs better.
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Comment by Nicole Butterfield on April 1, 2009 at 9:53pm -
Critique away!!! I need all the help I can get! =)
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